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Comments on: When science is undone by fiction. http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767 Science, climate change, coral reefs and the environment Mon, 31 Mar 2014 21:57:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.8.24 By: Phil M http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-2052 Sat, 23 Jul 2011 04:01:53 +0000 http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-2052 Ahhh good Janama, you are getting there slowly. First it was opinion, then more opinion, then a blog. Soon you will be able to point to peer reviewed evidence where Joseph D’Aleo has submitted a peer reviewed paper to declare to the scientific community his observations & ultimate debunking of AGW………….you DO have that peer reviewed paper don’t you?

Joseph D’Aleo HAS run this by the wider scientific community & not just denier for hire scientists like Bob Carter hasn’t he?

“the point is there is NO correlation between CO2 and temperature.”

I can’t believe you are arguing that. It is not even an argument anymore in the scientific community. They moved on from that years ago.

“Unless of course you can find one Phil_M”

Well. I wont post the dozens of links I have as that’s just spamming. But starting from basic leading up to more advanced understanding of CO2 & temperature here are some links.

This simple experiment shows how CO2traps heat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeYfl45X1wo

Obviously if more of it is added to our atmosphere, the heat has a harder time escaping….thus producing what is widely known as “The greenhouse effect”.

Intermediate:

CO2 causes warming AND rising temperature causes CO2 rise.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature-intermediate.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWJeqgG3Tl8

Advanced:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/04/the-lag-between-temp-and-co2/

Advanced & highly detailed is this 2hour presentation on this subject alone by Richard Alley.

“The biggest control knob. Carbon dioxide in earths climate history”

http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm09/lectures/lecture_videos/A23A.shtml

Notice in most of those links there are dozens of peer reviewed references to this subject?

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By: janama http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1968 Tue, 19 Jul 2011 07:46:13 +0000 http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1968 well here’s the original source.

http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/who_is_really_making_up_the_facts1/

I wonder if you can answer the post without ad hom attacking Joseph D’Aleo……….naaaaaah – no way!

here’s another one.

http://www.john-daly.com/soi-temp.htm

the point is there is NO correlation between CO2 and temperature. Unless of course you can find one Phil_M

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By: Phil M http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1960 Mon, 18 Jul 2011 20:45:28 +0000 http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1960

Phil_M – here’s the full time scale with reference to temperatures V PDO.

http://users.tpg.com.au/johnsay1/Stuff/temp_PDO.jpg

http://users.tpg.com.au/johnsay1/Stuff/temp_v_ENSO.jpg

The sea surface temps follow a similar curve relative to the PDO.

In other words it’s all within natural variation and has NOTHING to do with CO2.

http://users.tpg.com.au/johnsay1/Stuff/USHCNvsCO2.jpg

Ahhh random users profiles, un-sourced & unverified from an ISP in Australia………the go to place for ALL scientists.

Open any journal & they nearly always speak with reverence of the internet provider TPG for the final say on any scientific matter…….you got me there. There is no coming back from that ultimate authority.

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By: Phil M http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1919 Tue, 12 Jul 2011 20:17:13 +0000 http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1919 @John

“The truth, in my opinion, is that we barely have a clue about this planet.”

So John. Should we strive to continue to understand the planet and build on previous knowledge?

Obviously that is a dilemma for skeptics, because after all the ONLY reason scientists investigate climate change is for those juicy grants.They never went to uni to learn science ….because it interested them….it was ALWAYS about them juicy grants, which of course they would entirely pocket & then tell the taxpayer the money ran out and can we have some more? Forbes top 100 is just full of scientists.

It’s a real dilemma. We want to understand the planet, but scientists are collaborating worldwide for more grants and are manipulating their findings. What to do?

Maybe have ALL scientific research funded by the private sector? Because we know they don’t have their profits in mind, it’s all about the love of the people.

“but only a couple of hundred years of anything close to scientific data tracking.”

The 600k year old ice cores say differently.

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By: janama http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1917 Tue, 12 Jul 2011 02:32:05 +0000 http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1917 Phil_M – here’s the full time scale with reference to temperatures V PDO.

http://users.tpg.com.au/johnsay1/Stuff/temp_PDO.jpg

http://users.tpg.com.au/johnsay1/Stuff/temp_v_ENSO.jpg

The sea surface temps follow a similar curve relative to the PDO.

In other words it’s all within natural variation and has NOTHING to do with CO2.

http://users.tpg.com.au/johnsay1/Stuff/USHCNvsCO2.jpg

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By: Phil M http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1911 Mon, 11 Jul 2011 08:58:50 +0000 http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1911

Phil_M – instead of attacking me please address my link.

As James said Janama, you used a fairly small times series. Why not just do it year to year if you are going to plot such a short trend. Oh look it’s down now, ohhh oh…stop the press, wait it’s up this year, ohh wait, it’s down the next year.

Have a look at your graph now with a 40 year trend.

http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1970/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1970/trend

Or even a 20 years trend

http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1990/plot/hadsst2gl/from:1990/trend

Or hey, even an 11 year trend from 2000.

http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadsst2gl/from:2000/plot/hadsst2gl/from:2000/trend

Waiiiit a minute. Is “Janama” a pseudonym for Bob Carter?

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By: janama http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1908 Sun, 10 Jul 2011 08:16:04 +0000 http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1908 Phil_M – instead of attacking me please address my link. The PDO was +ve throughout the 80s and the 90s. In 2001-2 it reverted back to a negative cycle and the oceans and SST have reacted accordingly.

Please explain where this is deception & misinformation.

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By: Phil M http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1900 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 22:34:38 +0000 http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1900

Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world.

In science consensus is irrelevant.

Because clearly….medical people are the natural go to guys when it comes to information on climate change. Just like the AMA prefers it if Ove speaks at their conferences on medical matters. Because hey, you wouldn’t want people thinking there is a consensus. After all, just one medical study can over turn countless preceding studies….& it could be ANYONE that overturns that science. Not necessarily a doctor, it could be some dungeons & dragons expert! So lets not commit to any agreement…ever!

The UN can get bus drivers to go to international conferences instead of political representatives, because hey, we wouldn’t want there to be the appearance that there is a consensus of countries in favour of one thing or another.

We could get experts at space invaders video games to take over the role of the experts who establish aeronautic safety regulations. Because we wouldn’t want there to appear to be a consensus, that everyone agrees on one set of standards. Oh no, that’s a shameful word isn’t it.

The greatest scientists in history

That’s the key though isn’t it Wes……scientists. How many were NOT scientists, or not scientists of the relevant field that bucked the consensus & changed everything we knew? There maybe a few examples here & there, but for the vast majority of science, no.

When deniers come up with a new reproducible result instead of just opinion, science as a whole will be only more than happy to adopt the new position & form a new consensus.

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By: Anon http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1899 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:05:50 +0000 http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1899 Just found a paper that discusses some of the region I studied. Saying sea-surface temperatures are rising 0.2C per decade is wrong.

Shearman, R.K., and S.J. Lentz, 2010.
“Long-term sea surface temperature variability along the U.S. east coast.” Journal of Physical Oceanography, 40(5), 1004-1017.:

Quote: “The observations and a simple model show that along-shelf transport, associated with the mean coastal current system running from Labrador to Cape Hatteras, is the mechanism controlling long-term temperature changes for this region and not the local air–sea exchange of heat.”

http://www.whoi.edu/fileserver.do?id=79624&pt=10&p=52174

Stop lying and just admit that you want to study the environment. Just admit that you want to be a scientist, or else go be a minister or writer like JO Chandler who is and stop pretending to be authorities in science. Stop calling people crazy for disagreeing with the idea that the world is going to melt (all contributors to this blog). What you people do is not science. You are a joke to the scientific community.

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By: Anon http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1898 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 16:25:25 +0000 http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=6767#comment-1898 I think environmental science could also prosper as a science if you people would leave it alone and let it develop as a SCIENCE instead of treating it like it is some type of belief.

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